What did Guinness do for us?

[beerfly]

dont for get the enjoyment of watching someone order a round of drinks and when asked if that it. "and a guinness" sometimes the look on the banrams face is comical

[JoeyD]

I agree with you Tube.  Im always torn when I'm drinking guinness thinking the same things.  I am grateful that there is at least one decent beer available in Irish pubs no matter where you go.   

[fizzypish]

dont for get the enjoyment of watching someone order a round of drinks and when asked if that it. "and a guinness" sometimes the look on the banrams face is comical

A ha ha. As a former bar worker, this is most annoying!

[UpsidedownA (Andrew)]

Following on from a conversation Rossa and I had in Connolly Station Bar on Good Friday, we agreed there's a bit too much bad press surrounding Guinness in these circles, so much so that the good things often get overlooked. Maybe it's time we looked at those?

1. Guinness saved us from a lot of bad beer. Fact is Guinness bought out lots of breweries, but contrary to popular belief not all small independent Irish breweries produced good beer. Hely Dutton wrote in 1808 of County Clare "The beer or ale of this county is a most abominable compound, indeed not worse than the trash made in almost every part of Ireland" (it doesn't stop there!)

2. Were the first to really use science into brewing. At one point in the 1800s Beamish & Crawford was the biggest brewery in Ireland, five times the size of Guinness, yet journals noted that their beers could vary greatly from pub to pub in Cork, whereas Guinness ales, which were being transported from Dublin were very consistent, as Guinness were using early microscopes to examine yeast health.

Other topics include great conditions for workers, shaping of the Dublin streetscape, supporting Irish barley farmers, etc.

Not to mention actual advances in science like Guinness employee W.S. Gosset's Student's T-test http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Student's_t-test

[Metattron]

Have to agree.  They do work hard to ensure consistency.   And there's all the sponsorship they do.   Yes, I know it's all bedded in corporate greed, but... what was my point? 

[Alex Lawes]

Not to mention actual advances in science like Guinness employee W.S. Gosset's Student's T-test http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Student's_t-test

Glad you brought it up. Guinness were one of the first companies to introduce very modern science into their brewing on a huge scale.

There have been great things done in the name of Guinness but I think everyone here should realise they're now speaking in the past tense.

In terms of civic engagement -
Stephen's Green - Donated by Guinness
St. Patrick's Cathederal - Restored by Benjamin Guinness
Iveagh Gardens - Restored and donated Guinness
Iveagh Trust - Affordable housing headed by Guinness
etc etc.

In brewing the company did put Ireland on the map, and they began as a reaction to large scale imports of London porters into Dublin.
Rather than just win the fight of making Irish beer for the sake of calling it Irish or whatever Arthur would have dubbed it in his political persuasion (which is well documented), they pushed Irish beer back into England and abroad from there.

The sad case here is that in the 1900's, fifty men roasted barley in the roast house.
Now one man or woman monitors the SCADA that operates the machine.
You could argue that as many people work in the industries surrounding that process. That's fine, but there's a-lot to be said for the craft of a maltster as well.

In the US the craft beer industry owns 6% of the market, but employs 50% of the people who work in the beer manufacturing.

There is a stage where companies have become too big. When the success of a company is based on short term profits for short term shareholders the casualties are the long term benefits and core beliefs of a company who had a better vision than others.

Diageo have no interest in maintaining things like their worker's medical centre or furthering the work of the Guinness family themselves. They have no interest in pension contributions for brewers in Dundalk or how best to collaborate with the oncoming craft brewers of Ireland.

The fact is that in their loosing of dominance in the Irish market, more people will be employed in the brewing industry altogether. DIT put out a study claiming that micros employ 4 times more people per HL than large breweries.

There are good people in there but the argument is in the past tense.
Guinness were a very good company in many ways, but to me there's very little left of that in the pint.

[johnrm]

Well said Alex.
Is this the difference between Guinness historically and Diageo now?

[Alex Lawes]

The new brewhouse on Victoria Quay is your answer to that.

Centralisation.

Streamlining.

Scientific management.

Fordism for the brewing industry I reckon.

Really hope brewery workers in Dundalk and Kilkenny can pull something out of the bag in the midst of the closure.

I'd worry they still reckon Harp is a good lager and micro only means small.

[Rossa]

What myself and Shane were talking about was historically. The fingers of the Guinness family are to be found everywhere in Dublin and further afield.

[DEMPSEY]

I do not think Diageo have any interest in Guinness history other than to use it as promoting themselves. Although the name of Guinness still exists in this company,the culture of what the company has long gone.