Lidl Apple Juice Cider

[Flathead]

 We had some surplus Lidl cloudy apple juice at home recently so I got some more to make up 5 litres of cider, added some raisins, cranberries and cold tea plus enough sugar sweetened water to fill the Demi John.  In 2 days, at 20C, it fermented right down from 1050 to 1000.  I used a Coopers beer yeast I had left over from a beer kit.  At SG 1000, it's far too dry for me so I'm thinking of adding lactose and a half spoonful of dextrose for carbonation at the bottling stage. Any advice on the amount of lactose per litre to get a medium sweet cider ?  It still looks just like apple juice and shows no sign of clearing after leaving in a very cold room for 10 days or so.  Should I add finings or will it be good to drink cloudy ?
Also, I read about pasteurising in the bottle after carbonation by dunking bottles into 75C water for 10 minutes.  Comments and advice welcome please.

[Dunkel]

For my first turbo cider I backsweetened with lactose, and used 25 grams/litre to give a medium sweet cider (what the missus likes  ). The cloudy cider will have more flavour than if you clear it; I added pectolytic enzyme at the same time as the yeast, not sure if finings will work now. You need a real CiderHead (hint, hint) to answer that.

[Ciderhead]

My advice would be to use time or finings if you want clear cider as the raisins, cranberries and cold tea have all contributed to your cloudiness.
Then back sweeten with pasteurised apple juice or artificial sweetener to taste on a small volume basis and then scale up, problem with lactose is you need a lot of it and not great for those that are lactose intolerant(more than you think).
Check out Wills cider 101 thread.

[Flathead]

Thanks for various advices. I think I will sweeten with an artificial sweetener when the time comes to bottle. I'm not sure if the cider is going to clear as its showing no signs of this. I'm wondering would finings help or even to run it through a wine filter.  I think the yeast has all dropped out and what I'm left with is an apple juice coloured drink 4 weeks after fermentation stopped. I dont know if finings would clear this. I've already transferred it from the original Demi John and left the initial sediment behind.  I suppose I could leave it as a cloudy cider but I don't think it would look very good. A positive of that would be that I'd probably get to drink it all myself. I'm thinking 3 to 6 months before bottling. How's that ?

[Eoin]

Pectolase would clear it. But it will also strip some flavour. Cloudy is pretty authentic....

Sent from my HTC One

[Will_D]

The good book says that pectic enzyme (pectolase) doesn't work in presence of alcohol. Thats why its added 24 hours before adding yeast.

[Eoin]

It doesn't? Hmmm I'm pretty sure I've applied it late successfully in the past. Must be mistaken.

Sent from my HTC One

[Ciderhead]

It an enzyme, they don't drink! although I have heard stories and they are only stories about additions at High Krausen but I'm not convinced.

[Will_D]

Sure its a complex world we live in.

If in doubt try it?

[Ciderhead]

Here is some recent work again relating to the wine industry, suggesting late addition generates methanol which is obviously toxic.

http://cdn.intechopen.com/pdfs/29160/InTech-Microbial_pectic_enzymes_in_the_food_and_wine_industry.pdf

The above is relevant only to wine, for apple juice 24 hours after campden and before pitching is fine.

[Will_D]

I have also been digging into the Pectin/Pectolase/Methanol literature.

Here a succinct discusion. In particular read up about the actual Toxicity of Methanol and the safe daily limit.

http://homedistiller.org/intro/methanol/methanol

However further researce shows widely differing daily Reference Doses:

Varying from the stated 10mg/Kg Body Mass/Day,

to 0.5 mg/kg/Day(Wiki: Quoting an old CASN Data sheet) ,

to 2 mg/kg/day [Ref: http://www.epa.gov/iris/subst/0305.htm]

No wonder I don't drink much orange juice!


Its a complex world out there and there are more sides to chemistry/biochemistry arguments than there is to a dodecahedron

"Caveat Drinker" I say

[Ciderhead]

The above is relevant only to wine, for apple juice 24 hours after campden and before pitching is fine.

I'm not sure if that's directed at me? The bit I quoted says apple juice at 20% abv cleared, at half the rate.

The bottom lines is it will clear but you may need more/longer.

It's not all about you:)
I was talking about my reference.
The bottom line is KISS, keep it simple stupid, put it in at the start then you will be guaranteed a result with recommended doses.

[Ciderhead]

Seriously!

[Flathead]

Wow !  I think I'll leave it clear itself or else drink it clouds an' all.  Don't fancy taking a risk of poisoning somebody (least of all myself !).  There is a lovely smell of apples from it and I'm calculating it from hydrometer readings  at about 7% ABV. 

Just to close off on the topic, how long due you recommend leaving it in the demi john before sweetening and bottling.  I think I'm going to experiment with some Splenda in some bottles and just pour some apple juice into the glass before adding the cider for some other bottles.  At least I won't poison anybody (I hope !).

[Dunkel]

I usually bottle after three weeks in the fermenter. Seems to work out fine for me.