PIDs, Probes & SSRs:

[Hop Bomb]

Il be doing a little control panel soon for a herms pot & my HLT elements. What PIDs, probes & SSRs are people buying/using?

Cheers. Tom

[Garry]

I went for the cheap Chinese option. It's a REX C-100 PID with SSR and heatsink. Works grand too 

The sensor that comes with the REX-C100 is a bit shit so I got one like this instead.

Have a look at my HLT build here.

[Hop Bomb]

Nice one Gary. How is the PID going for you?

[St. Fursey]

I went fancy and got the auber instruments ones. They do a fancy ramp soak one that will be the mutts nuts for step mashes.

[St. Fursey]

Get rtd probes for better accuracy

[Hop Bomb]

Any links Enda? Do they come assembled with the xlr fitting & the braided cable covering?

[St. Fursey]

Any links Enda? Do they come assembled with the xlr fitting & the braided cable covering?

Try this
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=20_15&products_id=249
They've added XLR connectors since I bought mine. I went for the rtd probe plus the braided cable with rtd connector.

I'm using my phone, I can post better info tomorrow

[Hop Bomb]

Yeah thats what I need. Ive the T fittings for my tap so they'll screw in nicely. 

Any pros or cons to RTD connector over XLR? Apart from XLR just being sturdier (i wont be swinging them about with a mic on the end)

[Garry]

Nice one Gary. How is the PID going for you?

I just use mine for heating strike / sparge water water. I haven't got my rims working yet. I find that it over shot the first couple of times but since then its great. I knew SFA about programming it, I'm just using it straight outof the box. 

The auber ones seem to be on all the cool systems but I can't fault mine.

[St. Fursey]

Yeah thats what I need. Ive the T fittings for my tap so they'll screw in nicely. 

Any pros or cons to RTD connector over XLR? Apart from XLR just being sturdier (i wont be swinging them about with a mic on the end)

No idea Tom. I'd day sturdiness is probably the main thing. They shouldn't get much abuse at the control box end though

[biertourist]

I've got an AuberPid but the Chinese "MyPid" are becoming VERY popular and are basically feature identical and cheaper.

You can also flash a lowly STC-1000 to have "PID-like" functionality (I think it IS actually PID functionality but without "fuzzy logic" that is necessary for learning the attributes of your particular hardware and self calibrating.).  -Some guys on HomeBrewTalk have posted instructions for how to flash an STC-1000.


I agree with getting a properly 3 wire temp probe vs. a 2 wire temp probe as it can make up for issues that are introduced from your connectors and switching between different metals automatically; they also don't require recalibration as they enable "autocalibration" of measurement. I have the cheap "RTD" connectors and I HATE them.  They are so difficult to get them properly aligned if you're going to be constantly plugging them in and unplugging them; they are also pretty fragile AND the wires inside are so small soldering them is a HUGE PITA!  -If you're going to leave them permanently plugged in then just save the money and get the RTD connectors; if you're going to unplug and plug them back in then spend the money on the XLRs.

-I designed a single PID control panel that controls both the HLT and the Boil and I have to unplug and plug in the RTD connectors and they drive me crazy.

Advice: Do NOT, NOT bother with a PID controller for your boil kettle- a HUGE complication and increase in cost for NOTHING. You want dial-based PWM control for the boil kettle; don't use a rheostat or you'll just overheat things and burn them out.

More Advice: Switching a PID controller between two different vessels will confuse the hell out of the "fuzzy logic" algorithms; this is NOT where you save money either.  You DO want PID control for the HLT especially if you plan on brewing different batch sizes on a single system; you DO want PID control for controling mash temps if you're doign anythign other than single temp infusions -you also want two separate PID controllers if this is the case.  One for HLT -calibrated to the HLT vessel; and one for mashing calibrated to the mashing vessel and how you mash. (Calibrate while recirculating if you're going to recirculation mash.)

Continued: Oversize your SSR by at least 50% (I went with 100%) of what you'll actually be using to reduce heat and to prevent from blowing up your SSR during an initial surge.

Continued: Just because you can doesn't mean you should: Don't install your temp probe in the bottom of any vessel; it's tempting to just install it in your site glass fitting but to get an accurate reading you want the temp probe to be half way up the vessel / your water level. (I had to setup my HLT to constantly recirculate the water and tie up another pump because I added the fitting to site glass.)

Note: When SSRs die, they often die in the fully open state without much warning -this is pretty dangerous, ESPECIALLY in a RIMS tube...; physical switches (or a contactor which is essentially a remotely operated physical switch) in the circuit are a great safety feature.


Adam

[Hop Bomb]

Cheers for the detailed reply Adam. I went with the Auber PIDs & their rtd sensors with xlr fittings. They arrived in two days - very impressed.  temp probes will screw into the T fitting on the taps of my pots. I already use a chugger to recirc my sparge water to get an even temp & also to pasteurize my plate chiller so this will remain the same with the PID in my brewery. . This pump is also used to fly sparge. . Ive two PIDs - one for my HLT & one for my herms. Boil kettle doesnt need one as its on a blichmann burner. St fursey gave me a few lights & switches, got my metal enclosure & Heatsink from same supplier as him also. Will post links if anyone is interested. As seen before this is based on the electric brewery build so will have all the safety switches etc in place. Hopefully it wont take 6 months to get it together...

[St. Fursey]

Hopefully it wont take 6 months to get it together...

8 months and counting...

[Ozbrewer]

Advice: Do NOT, NOT bother with a PID controller for your boil kettle- a HUGE complication and increase in cost for NOTHING.

No. I have a PID for my BK. Temp probe is direct through the kettle wall. The PID will be set to just below boiling point, when target temp is hit - say 98c, an alarm will sound letting me know it's close to boil. You then set the temp point a degree or two above 100c, set to manual - most people use about 80%, meaning the element fires 80% of the time - this maintains a rolling boiling. This is for a setup with a 5500 watt element. This process ensures I can walk away and do something else and not face a boil over. When the boil is finished, I can set the temp point to pitching temp, recirculate through counterflow chiller and back to the BK - alarm will sound when pitching temp is reached. It's not much more of complication when already adding a few other PIDs, and it most definitely can have a purpose in your brewing process.

Continued: Oversize your SSR by at least 50% (I went with 100%) of what you'll actually be using to reduce heat and to prevent from blowing up your SSR during an initial surge.

Yep. Oversize your SSRs relative the amps being used by your elements. This means less heat and less stress on the SSR and will lengthen its life span.

Continued: Just because you can doesn't mean you should: Don't install your temp probe in the bottom of any vessel; it's tempting to just install it in your site glass fitting but to get an accurate reading you want the temp probe to be half way up the vessel / your water level. (I had to setup my HLT to constantly recirculate the water and tie up another pump because I added the fitting to site glass.)

Your temp probes on the HLT and the MLT should be on the output valves if recirculating. See numerous threads on the electric brewery website or others. Those that have placed them anywhere else have difficulty maintaining temps or get different readings between the HLT and the MLT. In fact the PID for the MLT only purpose is to check / correlate the temp of the mash is the same as that of the HERMS. This is particularly relevant for those copying the electric brewery setup.

Note: When SSRs die, they often die in the fully open state without much warning -this is pretty dangerous, ESPECIALLY in a RIMS tube...; physical switches (or a contactor which is essentially a remotely operated physical switch) in the circuit are a great safety feature.

No. SSR fail in the closed state. This means that the circuit is closed, which allows electricity to run though it. This is why a mechanical contactor and on/off switch is required before the SSR so that you can turn of the electricity to the element. The on/off switch allows electricity to run to the contactor which energizes the coil, placing it in a closed state, meaning electricity can now flow through to the SSR and down to the element, the PID turns the SSR on and off depending on the temperature setting etc. 

Hopefully it wont take 6 months to get it together...

My electric brewery clone is now at 19 months........

[biertourist]

Advice: Do NOT, NOT bother with a PID controller for your boil kettle- a HUGE complication and increase in cost for NOTHING.

"
No. I have a PID for my BK. Temp probe is direct through the kettle wall. The PID will be set to just below boiling point, when target temp is hit - say 98c, an alarm will sound letting me know it's close to boil. You then set the temp point a degree or two above 100c, set to manual - most people use about 80%, meaning the element fires 80% of the time - this maintains a rolling boiling. This is for a setup with a 5500 watt element. This process ensures I can walk away and do something else and not face a boil over. When the boil is finished, I can set the temp point to pitching temp, recirculate through counterflow chiller and back to the BK - alarm will sound when pitching temp is reached. It's not much more of complication when already adding a few other PIDs, and it most definitely can have a purpose in your brewing process.
"

Sure but when you have a rolling boil spewing hot break all over everywhere the few seconds it takes to hold the PID buttons and then decrease the %output to 80%; it's also another $60 (USD anyway) to add another PID controller -a PWM dial controller is cheap as chips and you just turn the dial counter-clockwise and the heat output instantly goes down.  Proportional, Integral, and Differentially determining the heat difference between where you currently are and where you need to be is pointless; you're paying for features that you'll never use in a boil kettle and are making it unnecessarily more complicated. 

You just need quick response to turning down how much heat your boil kettle produces; when you think about the actual requirement for a boil kettle a physical dial instantly comes to mind because it's a solution that's "right sized" to the problem. 

You could build a small jet engine and use it to make creme brulee, but you can't say that you're right sizing the solution to the problem if you do so.  Yea, it does have more bling factor...


Adam