Shit Irish Breweries

[TheSumOfAllBeers]

Contrast that with the perfectly conditioned cask London Pride I was drinking in the Three Tun Tavern at the weekend. On special at €1.99 a pint. I can't wait to see what the pub trade will look like in Ireland when Wetherspoons hit full stride.

Jumping in late on this, but I had a look at the Three Tuns beer list and was very impressed. I live in London, and its beer selection was up there with the bigger spoons pubs.

One of the problems with the craft beer scene in Ireland is that all the micros need to distribute far and wide. In the UK, a real ale microbrewery considers the 10 mile radius from the brewery, its main custom. Its beer will be in most pubs in that radius, so its work is primarily cask delivery. London micros will ship keykegs around in black cabs and zipvans.

Irish micros have to bottle nearly everything. And bottles are a really expensive delivery option. Bottles will hang around on shelves longer, unlike kegs and casks. It doesn't help that the crafty bars are padding out the margins too. We have this in london too, with the craft bars padding the prices out the yard, but you also have pubs that deal direct with brewers. For instance, Kernel Pale Ale can be £6.50 in one craft chain, or £5 even in another (guess where I drink). And if you dont want to pay craft prices, Real Ale will rarely get over £4 a pint in london.

[TheSumOfAllBeers]

One factor really holding Irish Micros back, is the fact that they cannot sell direct on the premises in most cases (they have to apply for a license like anyone else). I the UK a license usually goes for £25. So all micros have one, so that they can sell their beer at brewery direct prices to whoever drives over to the brewery. It has encouraged some innovation in the dispense method (growlers etc.).

In London, many microbreweries function like nightclubs at the weekends (DJs etc.) and it really helps the brewery establish itself. Brew By Numbers IPA: £3 at the brewery. Expect it to go to £3/£3.50 a half in most of the pubs where it is sold.

If Irish micros could go this way, it could really help them. it is one thing to say that this beer was made in my home town, it is another to say that this beer was made *over there*.

[SlugTrap]

Had a pint of White Hag White IPA over the weekend at Beerhouse... I have to say it
was the best Irish pint I've ever had, and is head and shoulders above almost anything else I've had this year... for once I didn't feel bitter about paying 6.20 for a pint! Other Irish breweries could learn a thing or two..

Sure: be ready to export from the start and get a head brewer from one of the top breweries in the US. Easier said than done.

One factor really holding Irish Micros back, is the fact that they cannot sell direct on the premises in most cases (they have to apply for a license like anyone else). I the UK a license usually goes for £25. So all micros have one, so that they can sell their beer at brewery direct prices to whoever drives over to the brewery. It has encouraged some innovation in the dispense method (growlers etc.).

The VFI will fight that tooth and nail, the way I hear it.

[John Edward]

Had a pint of White Hag White IPA over the weekend at Beerhouse... I have to say it
was the best Irish pint I've ever had, and is head and shoulders above almost anything else I've had this year... for once I didn't feel bitter about paying 6.20 for a pint! Other Irish breweries could learn a thing or two..

Everything I sampled at the RDS was brilliant--without a doubt the best brewery in Ireland. I had their imperial stout and red IPA at Black Sheep at the weekend and they were every bit as good as I remembered. Even their heather ale is flavourful, which must be a first.

[cruiscinlan]

Economies of scale, lower bulk quantities from malt right through to print run on labels , h and diageo id imagine use hop extract for bittering and can demand much better prices on hops and can sub quite easily less  , macro less labour intensive production process , plus the publican can get away with slapping 50- 65% markup on what the brewery gets , plus below cost selling by established macros

Ultimately the craft industry in Ireland has to answer the question as to why you can get really good locally brewed beer for between £2-£3 a pint over the water, in fact as is often the case the macros are dearer in the UK.  We do have higher input costs as an economy, but there are plenty of studies that show that higher costs here can only account for c.25% of the price difference, so that leaves us with E3.00-E3.80 for Irish craft beer.

The vintners as well need to realise that their dependence on super-pubs and their relationship with the macros is killing them, all the traffic is one way.  I myself and many people I know are sick to the teeth of wall to wall branding for Guinness and all that Arthurs Day nonsense.

[John Edward]

Economies of scale, lower bulk quantities from malt right through to print run on labels , h and diageo id imagine use hop extract for bittering and can demand much better prices on hops and can sub quite easily less  , macro less labour intensive production process , plus the publican can get away with slapping 50- 65% markup on what the brewery gets , plus below cost selling by established macros

Ultimately the craft industry in Ireland has to answer the question as to why you can get really good locally brewed beer for between £2-£3 a pint over the water, in fact as is often the case the macros are dearer in the UK.  We do have higher input costs as an economy, but there are plenty of studies that show that higher costs here can only account for c.25% of the price difference, so that leaves us with E3.00-E3.80 for Irish craft beer.

The vintners as well need to realise that their dependence on super-pubs and their relationship with the macros is killing them, all the traffic is one way.  I myself and many people I know are sick to the teeth of wall to wall branding for Guinness and all that Arthurs Day nonsense.

Is there a significant difference in excise tax and licencing costs between here and the UK? What about rent and labour? (I lived in Manchester in 2009 and hardly ever paid more than £2 for a fine proper cask ale. Even in London on White Hall I could find a pint of ale for £3. This of course at a time when a pint of stout anywhere in Dublin was €4+.) Are the Irish less price-sensitive than the English? It'd be great if a publican could chime in on this. Anecdotally, I know my mates seem less motivated by price and make choices based on atmosphere and whether or not it's a place they always drank at.

Has any pub in the city centre tried to undercut competition through extremely attractive pricing? I imagine one must have but I can't recall seeing it personally.

Also, this struck me as rather cheeky at the time but I'll reserve judgement as I don't have access to the finances and inner workings of breweries here. Shane, the brewmaster for Franciscan Well told me at the beer festival that he was really happy to be able to offer in the near future a table ale which was a short beer from one of their other brews. He said it would be about 3.3% and sell for €4 in a pub. It was this price point that he seemed most proud of. To be honest, €4 seems like a joke for that unless they can work a bit of magic and make it taste like something more than the second runnings of their grain. Depending on their factor input costs, the profit margins on this one might be much larger than their other beers. All this makes me wonder if people in Dublin would really continually pay €4 for such a product, and if they will, then I suppose that's the answer to the questions posed above--the market will support it.

[brian_c]

That's pretty much Via Maris from Galway Bay. Second running's from Foam and Fury, hopped to hell, 3.5%, €4 a pint and bloody gorgeous.

[Qs]

Even in London on White Hall I could find a pint of ale for £3. This of course at a time when a pint of stout anywhere in Dublin was €4+.)

Isn't that basically the same price?

[Bubbles]

Shane, the brewmaster for Franciscan Well told me at the beer festival that he was really happy to be able to offer in the near future a table ale which was a short beer from one of their other brews. He said it would be about 3.3% and sell for €4 in a pub. It was this price point that he seemed most proud of. To be honest, €4 seems like a joke for that unless they can work a bit of magic and make it taste like something more than the second runnings of their grain.

Galway Bay have been doing exactly this for a few months now. Their "Table" beer is made from second runnings of Foam & Fury, very hop forward and certainly lacking malt complexity, but it's delicious. And the GB pubs can't keep it in stock. That's around 3.5% ABV and sells at €4 a pint. Their "Via Maris" is a similar ABV and price point, but I'm not sure if it's made from second runnings..

I'd like to think that all Irish craft breweries will have an offering like this, but of course, GB have the ability to set the prices in their own pubs. No middlemen hiking up the price.

[DEMPSEY]

Stands to reason that it runs out as its production depends on production of foam and fury. If you want more of it then drink all the foam and fury and then they will make you more

[imark]

We're charged too much because we are willing to pay it. It's not going to change any time soon as the industry here is based on the principle that they can get that sort of money for a pint. Only light on the horizon may be that witherspoons can force a price drop by breaking up the cartel but I wouldn't hold my breath.

Only solution is to brew your own. It's probably better quality in most cases.

[Pheeel]

The govt needs to make it easier for breweries to sell their own goods on site and allow take out

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

The vintners cartel round on anyone not pricing appropriately and use their muscle with the big distributers to squeeze anyone not complying, they managed to block Whitherspoons before from opening in Capel St, but thankfully haven't managed to block them this time, they've only themselves to blame for the increase in off licence/ supermarket sales and the demise of their business. They now want to be our moral guardians calling for minimum pricing instead of competing, people are happy to pay a premium for comfortable surroundings ambiance etc, but there's a limit

[DEMPSEY]

Speaking for myself I am very happy that the current revolution is apparently taking hold. As for all the years that I have being drinking in pubs and being given the look because I was being awkward for asking "do you have anything other than the same as everywhere else" . Now at least some do .

[imark]

Speaking for myself I am very happy that the current revolution is apparently taking hold. As for all the years that I have being drinking in pubs and being given the look because I was being awkward for asking "do you have anything other than the same as everywhere else" . Now at least some do .

Get back to work!