Spoons give Heineken a kick

[cruiscinlan]

And an attack from right of centre http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/250-pub-pints-should-be-outlawed-says-fg-td-30880442.html

Genuine concern for the health of the nation?  Rather the VFI at work again methinks.

[mr hoppy]

I see someone has had a go off Mary Mitchell O'Connor's wikipedia page as a result.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Mitchell_O%27Connor

[DEMPSEY]

I see someone has had a go off Mary Mitchell O'Connor's wikipedia page as a result.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Mitchell_O%27Connor

Now that was quick,tell me how did you find out to check this . Depressing reading again with yet another school teacher as a politician. Can we have an agreed quota of Teachers as politicians in the next Dail I wonder

[Bubbles]

Silly, silly woman. Can't believe I gave her a vote in the last GE..

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/elections/comment-analysis/lise-hand-new-td-gets-crash-course-in-politics-26710071.html

[mr hoppy]

Now that was quick,tell me how did you find out to check this

After looking at the Indo article I wondered if she had a vested interest so I nipped over to Wikipedia, and lo and behold...

[ronanp]

[/quote]
Now that was quick,tell me how did you find out to check this . Depressing reading again with yet another school teacher as a politician. Can we have an agreed quota of Teachers as politicians in the next Dail I wonder
[/quote]

I think publican's have always been the most well represented group in the Dail, certainly was the case in the past.

[Qs]

The argument that 2.50 pints are a problem is ridiculous. We had all the issues of binge drinking in this country before Spoons arrived. €6 pint pubs are still full of drunks. Price isn't the issue here.

[Bubbles]

Pints of cask ale in Wetherspoons are now £1.29 (€1.64)

(Quote from Irish Goat in the Derry thread)

and meanwhile... down south... our politicians are doing everything they can to appease the vintners lobby groups (group?) by crying out for minimum pricing. Like the arrival of Wetherspoons is going to have any effect on the problems of alcoholism or anti-social behaviour in this country! Take a stroll down to the Three Tun Tavern - I don't see anyone causing fights or destroying their livers down there. They're all just filling their boots on the cheap grub, as far as I can see.

And the journalists are worse, whipping up the idiot masses into a state of frenzy by telling them that the arrival of JDW in this country is going to destroy the fabled "Irish Pub". Does this concept of an "Irish pub" even exist any more?

Most people are more concerned with the decor in a pub than how the beer tastes, that's obvious. Old roadsigns, a few dusty books, stuffed pheasant. There's your Irish pub right there...

[Shanna]

The argument that 2.50 pints are a problem is ridiculous. We had all the issues of binge drinking in this country before Spoons arrived. €6 pint pubs are still full of drunks. Price isn't the issue here.

A pub selling €6 pints will attract a very different customer (in terms of economic purchasing power) than a pub that is selling a €2.50 pint and yes your right you can find drunks in both of these pubs. However I am not sure that I would agree that price is not an issue that causes increased consumption.

Cheap alcohol from whatever source e.g pub, off license, supermarket does tend to lead to increased consumption but its usually also linked with greater availability. Put bluntly if you can buy drink more freely for less money you will tend to drink more. Price controls and availability restrictions reduce consumption over time. This may be contrary to the posts here but I am trying to say that two or three pubs selling cut price beer will not make a difference. 50 or 100 across the country is a different matter entirely. The publicans are worried because of the economic effect on their business but I would imagine that the guards/emergency services/hospital staff will be even more worried if over time they have to deal with more and more people overdoing it on cheap booze.

The comments made by this politician and others in Ireland though are completely disingenuous as they are not impartial due to the conflict of interest where people are part owners or supported by publicans. Swedens department of health did a study - http://www.systembolagetkampanj.se/forskarrapport_en/downloads/Hela_rapporten.pdf on the projected impact of allowing private sources sell alcohol & it forecast increased consumption.

Sweden had a recognised alcolhism problem at the end of the 19th century that they got on top of by nationalising the sale and distribution of drink. Ireland most abused drug of choice is alcohol, but unlike the heroin addict on the street its unseen in the homes and bars across the country. Alcohol abuse contributes to road traffic accidents, mental health issues, depression, suicides, domestic abuse, family breakup, self harm as well as direct health issues such as liver and kidney problems. We as a nation have an fucked up relationship with drink & don't just take my word on it. Read the stats about the number of people who have alcohol addictions here its absolutely frightening http://alcoholireland.ie/facts/alcohol-related-harm-facts-and-statistics/

Don't get me wrong, I like my booze as much as the next man, and will overdo it on occasion but I am honest enough to know it can become all consuming very easily and its visible at all aspects of life here. Take any occasion from a child's christening to a funeral here and there is drink involved.

Shanna

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

I have spent a large portion if my life surrounded by free drink, some people can cope with this without issues and others can't . I am currently on holiday in an all inclusive resort, some days I drink only water other times I drink beer. I have met two other Irish  families I feel that I am a normal individual without the urge or need to get drunk just because it's free and I can have as much as I want,.
I think that the issue relates to the importance some people are thought to associate with alcohol from an early age. If you see moderate drinking around you then you learn to drink moderately, but if your prospective is they you spend your Sunday parked in a pub for the day, from an early age then in all probability "Monkey see, monkey do"  will prevail. I don't know the answer to the problem but can't see how punishing responsible drinkers with higher prices will resolve the issue of irresponsible drinking.
I spend a lot of time in Spain, and although they also are not without problems, however at a water park near my house they have uncontrolled slot machines selling Coke, 7up and beer, the cheapest option is beer, and yet the teenagers hanging around these machines are drinking soft drinks. I know for sure that the reverse would unfortunately be the norm in Ireland. We seem to put too much significance in alcohol consumption, from Christenings to communions to anything to celebrate must include people getting drunk. It's not natural for young people to like the flavour of alcohol, their taste preference generally is towards sweeter things, it saddens me to see young people drinking to get drunk rather than for enjoyment of the product, be it beer or wine etc. then you have the multi nationals inventing super sweet Alcopops or in my option even worse Red Bull, which keeps people vertical when they should be horizontal.
I don't think pricing is the answer, I spent some time working in Copenhagen, and on Friday evenings the place filled up with Swedish young men who spent every weekend on a binge, both places are expensive for drinking just one cheaper than the other..
It's a complex problem to which increasing publicans profit margins is certainly not the only solution

[molc]

Some great posts there guys. I think the Swedish model is quite interesting, as they both control supply and availability, but a side effect is they also bring prices down through group buying as a country. You can get great beers over there and much cheaper prices than here, but you have to get to the off license I'm the early evening otherwise it's closed, almost like office hours.
In Ireland, we have a problem of culture and relationship. Increasing supply with cheaper prices and later opening hours may not be a cause, but changing it is part of the solution until we can reestablish a healthy relationship with drink.

[Padraich]

An interesting fact about the Systeme in Sweden... if you order a minimum of 6 bottles of wine through them, from anywhere in the world, regardless of price, they will sell them to you at cost + fixed % margin + tax; free of delivery.  My brother lives there and raves about the service.  He's gotten some really hard to get wine this way!

[TheSumOfAllBeers]

My issue with minimum pricing is that it exclusively targets the less well off.

By extension it insinuates that the majority of problems rest at the feet of the less well off.

[Shanna]

I have spent a large portion if my life surrounded by free drink, some people can cope with this without issues and others can't . I am currently on holiday in an all inclusive resort, some days I drink only water other times I drink beer. I have met two other Irish  families I feel that I am a normal individual without the urge or need to get drunk just because it's free and I can have as much as I want,.
I think that the issue relates to the importance some people are thought to associate with alcohol from an early age. If you see moderate drinking around you then you learn to drink moderately, but if your prospective is they you spend your Sunday parked in a pub for the day, from an early age then in all probability "Monkey see, monkey do"  will prevail. I don't know the answer to the problem but can't see how punishing responsible driinkers with higher prices will resolve the issue of irresponsible drinking.
I spend a lot of time in Spain, and although they also are not without problems, however at a water park near my house they have uncontrolled slot machines selling Coke, 7up and beer, the cheapest option is beer, and yet the teenagers hanging around these machines are drinking soft drinks. I know for sure that the reverse would unfortunately be the norm in Ireland. We seem to put too much significance in alcohol consumption, from Christenings to communions to anything to celebrate must include people getting drunk. It's not natural for young people to like the flavour of alcohol, their taste preference generally is towards sweeter things, it saddens me to see young people drinking to get drunk rather than for enjoyment of the product, be it beer or wine etc. then you have the multi nationals inventing super sweet Alcopops or in my option even worse Red Bull, which keeps people vertical when they should be horizontal.
I don't think pricing is the answer, I spent some time working in Copenhagen, and on Friday evenings the place filled up with Swedish young men who spent every weekend on a binge, both places are expensive for drinking just one cheaper than the other..
It's a complex problem to which increasing publicans profit margins is certainly not the only solution

I lived in Madrid for a year in the city centre. On inummerable occasions I saw groups of Spanish teenagers knocking back local concoction of cheapest red wine mixed with Coke. Sangria & spirits mixes with sweet drinks were the norm for colleagues & friends. I would have saw them drink just as much but just different choices.

Shanna

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

I had said they weren't without problems and the Botellón parties are a manir source of concern for them. These are street parties organised over social media sites whereby large numbers of youths arrange to meet up and drink. The typical drink involves a 2 or 3 litre bottle  (botellón) of coke which has had some of the coke replaced with a bottle of vodka or similar.
However the fact still remains that a vending machine selling beer in a water park wasn't abused by the Spanish kids who were there to enjoy the water park rather than to get drunk.
Another point to note is that at this time of the year some areas of Scandanavia have very little daylight which is an extra factor to deal with and a contributory part of their issues with alcoholism, which we don't have to deal with in Ireland