First all grain: low OG

[molc]

So, did my fist all grain at the weekend. Took about 6 hours and all went pretty well(don't try to load grain into a compost bag, it ends up on the kitchen floor!), except my first runnings were about 1079 and the final volume was 2 litres too much and under gravity by about 10 points. Works out at 65% effenciency.

From reading online, it looks like the milling was too coarse (.05 on the brewferm mill). Also my second running came out at 14L whereas the first were 12L (on target)

The question is is there anything I'm missing here? I'm gong to try to mill to .035 next time with a little les water, but it would be great to get any other suggestions from other all grainers if I'm missing something.

Recipe is the APA I posted a few weeks ago. The place smelled heavenly when I started the boil

[LordEoin]

First of all, don't worry about efficiency too much. If your setup continues to work at 65% then just up the grain bill to compensate.
The place I seem to lose out on efficiency is with my sparge, I seem to get about 65% if i batch sparge or fly sparge too fast, and about 70% if I take my time with a nice slow controlled fly sparge.
Adding oat/rice husks and a thinner mash with the grain mixed in slowly seem to improve my efficiency too.
Of course some more details of your equipment and method should help some more folks to throw in their tuppence

Have a read through this for ideas: http://www.braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Understanding_Efficiency

[nigel_c]

After a few brews you will tweet your own system and work out what works best for you.
One way to booste your effiench is my perfecting your grain mill but another way is to split your spathe water into 2 lots and do 2 drains of your mash after first runnings.

Play around with your system and you'll find what works best for you.
Enjoy.

[Qs]

If you had an extra 2 litres that's gonna effect your effecency. I'd do a few more batches before messing with your mill.

What I do if my vols are wrong is make a copy of the recipe in beersmith and then input whatever volume I got. If add 2 litres to my recipes I'll drop around 5 points.

[molc]

Cheers lads, looks like there's some more batches of trial and error ahead of me.

Regarding my system and method, I'm using an igloo 45L cooler for the mash. I had about 5.6kg of grain to which I added 15l of water at 75C, for a 66.7C mash for 60 mins. After that, I vorlaufed and then drained first runnings over about 20 mins. The tun was topped up again with another 16L of water at 76C, stirred, left sit for 20 mins and then drained for second runnings. A straight forward batch sparge.

I didn't realise the speed you stir in the grain could make any difference. I just dumped mine in, stirred to bejesus and let it sit for an hour. Next time I'll do it a bit slower and also try a slower sparge as I think I was done in about 20 minutes.

[mcgrath]

Are the gravity readings from before or after you boiled? If before , then you will boil off the extra volume and gravity will rise closer to target figures. 

[molc]

They were 10 points short of the predicted before gravity, so the difference held through the boil.

[Qs]

Are you batch sparging Molc?

[molc]

Yup, a single sparge after the first draining

[Qs]

Stir more often during the mash then, I usually give it a good stir 3 or 4 times. Definitely improved my efficiency.

[molc]

Cool, think I did it once or twice, but was terrified of the temp dropping too much after about 30 mins and just left it alone

[Simon_]

the final volume was 2 litres too much .... my second running came out at 14L whereas the first were 12L (on target)

I had about 5.6kg of grain to which I added 15l of water at 75C, for a 66.7C mash for 60 mins. After that, I vorlaufed and then drained first runnings over about 20 mins. The tun was topped up again with another 16L of water at 76C, stirred

You're expecting to lose 3L to soakage on the first runnings and 4 litres on the sparge but the grain is going to be nearly saturated after the first runnings so you should expect to lose less to soakage on the sparge. That's where the extra volume is coming from.

[molc]

Nicely spotted. Now I need to go into beeramith and figure out why it was off on the sparge ammount. That with a little more effeciency in my mash and I should be bang on. Thanks!

[mcgrath]

Refractometer is great for brewday. I keep sparging until I hit 1.010. then stop. I gave up trying to work off volumes. Stops you over or under sparging. You can add water to the boil or boil for longer if needed to adjust your gravity.

[nigel_c]

I would say when you get the feel of your system you will be able to do it in your sleep.
I did the numbers that beer smith gave me but I know on my system it'll be slightly different.
Play around with it and get to know your own system. Be it dough in temps, volumes, evaporation rates and efficiency %.
Once you get consistent on your numbers, even if they are low you can go towards proving your numbers. Wouldn't worry about it though. Get your process down first.