Metalman cans

[Greg2013]

I was not saying it was just "craft" beer that was overpriced,it is everything across the board,that said "craft" beer is overpriced more than macro IMHO.Every consumer's opinion on what is a fair price is different and entirely subjective and individual,however IMHO anything above 3.00 euro/500ml(from a supermarket or large offlicence) is too much for any beer unless it is some sort of special brew like an RIS or a Belgian Strong(think Rochefort .

These are my opinions and are only being expressed here in that capacity.Bare in mind i am not saying any particular beer is bad or anything like that,just that they charge too much in certain cases,whoever is the one that charges too much i have no clue,by the same token whatever a "craft" brewer has to go through as opposed to what a macro brewery has to go through to produce a batch of beer at the end of the day the first thing i see is what price is it on the shelf.

[mr hoppy]

Heineken, who have every industrial, distribution, and marketing advantage in the world, price their 500ml cans at €2.19 at a supermarket.
If €3 is your limit, are you honestly saying that a small business, who has no economies of scale and no advertising yet is making a superior product, should only price their beer at 80 cents more than a tasteless big corporate lager?
</rant>

For what it's worth I'd have thought that advertising was a cost, rather than something that would make your product cheaper per se. Heineken is marketed as a premium i.e. higher cost product and it's a lager to boot. A can of Beamish is 1.89 in Tesco right now.

[SlugTrap]

Every consumer's opinion on what is a fair price is different and entirely subjective and individual,however IMHO anything above 3.00 euro/500ml(from a supermarket or large offlicence) is too much for any beer unless it is some sort of special brew like an RIS or a Belgian Strong(think Rochefort .

Sure, everyone has their own sense of what it's fair to pay.
But I was in Redmond's yesterday and took the time to notice the pricing with this thread in mind: everything crafty, from high gravity Trappists to British real ales to American hop bombs, was €3 and up. It just seems to be the entry point for craft beer.
So I'd be genuinely curious what you end up drinking.

For what it's worth I'd have thought that advertising was a cost, rather than something that would make your product cheaper per se. Heineken is marketed as a premium i.e. higher cost product and it's a lager to boot. A can of Beamish is 1.89 in Tesco right now.

It's a cost that pays for itself and then some. Advertising = more sales = more cash. Otherwise, why bother?

Beamish is still made by Heineken with all their financial advantages but is marketed as a budget product. If consumers can handle a 15-20% swing in price from the same manufacturer just based on how a product is positioned, why is it hard to swallow a jump in cost for something tastier made with better ingredients (i.e. craft)?

[Greg2013]

Well atm Slugg just my own homebrew since prices on all beer seem to have shot up this year so far,jaysus i was in Dunnes today and Wells Banana Bread beer was 3.50/500ml  ,that is just one example but all the more major UK macro ales now seem to be getting priced the same as "craft" beer it's bloody crazy,and then on the Irish side a 330ml bottle of Fran Well was nearly fecking 4.00 euro,i mean cmon now that is taking the mick a bit even for Ireland.

[mr hoppy]

While I'd fundamentally disagree with the "because I'm worth it" argument - and by extension the whole idea of "craft" beer - I'd accept there's another side to this debate - starting at 5.50

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOa0IryJ8oI

[SlugTrap]

While I'd fundamentally disagree with the "because I'm worth it" argument - and by extension the whole idea of "craft" beer - I'd accept there's another side to this debate - starting at 5.50

That other side shown in the video is a tied house thing, not a brewing thing.

I'm intrigued, though, to hear how you disagree with the idea of craft beer...

[brian_c]

1.89 for cans of Metalman in super value today. I'd call that a good price.

[Greg2013]

1.89 for cans of Metalman in super value today. I'd call that a good price.

See that is a proper price for a 330ml can of craft beer,pity MM is not for sale in Dungarvan SV 

[brian_c]

Raheny.

[mr hoppy]

That other side shown in the video is a tied house thing, not a brewing thing.

I don't think the video mentions it specifically but SS is famous for its cheap beer - the price of a pint of bitter in their tied houses hasn't gone up by much in decades. What I hadn't realized is that - to do this - they've shafted their landlords.

What I take from this is there's no such thing as a free lunch and it's wishful thinking to imagine you can get a product for less than it can be sold for profitably, at least not for long. I'd imagine servicing the capital cost of the canning machine had a bearing on the pricing of Metalman's cans.

I'm intrigued, though, to hear how you disagree with the idea of craft beer...

When I started drinking what's now called craft beer it was sold in microbreweries, or as "world beer". I'd view "craft beer" as an elastic marketing concept: and like anything terms like "craft" or "artisanal" are applied to ultimately it works to allow sellers to command a super premium price - in some cases on products that heretofore had been considered unremarkable, and in other cases - as you've acknowledged - on pretty poor offerings.

[SlugTrap]

What I take from this is there's no such thing as a free lunch and it's wishful thinking to imagine you can get a product for less than it can be sold for profitably, at least not for long. I'd imagine servicing the capital cost of the canning machine had a bearing on the pricing of Metalman's cans.

I think we're violently agreeing.
Nobody blinks at Heineken setting their prices to gain them €1.36bn in profits, but a small brewer looking just to stay afloat is somehow charging a fortune.
The canning line was six figures, I'm sure, so yes, it needs to be paid for.

When I started drinking what's now called craft beer it was sold in microbreweries, or as "world beer". I'd view "craft beer" as an elastic marketing concept: and like anything terms like "craft" or "artisanal" are applied to ultimately it works to allow sellers to command a super premium price - in some cases on products that heretofore had been considered unremarkable, and in other cases - as you've acknowledged - on pretty poor offerings.

Yup, I date to the micro boom in the 90s myself - $2.50 a bottle in bars back when Bud longnecks were $1.25.
There's been a lot of back and forth over the definition of "craft" but to me it's only useful when it's simple: quality first.
Craft breweries are entitled to a higher price if they're providing a superior product; where that falls apart (and where I quibble with Beoir) is when nobody is holding them accountable for bad beer.

[Greg2013]

Mr Hoppy and  Slugg of course i agree the canning machine has to be paid for,even i realise that,i also realise that once MM is sold wholesalers etc it is out of brewery's hands at that stage re what price is charged to a large degree.

Now all that said if MM was sold for 2.25 euro or something a 330ml can i would not object,it is local and a good beer(though not what it used to be IMHO) and well capital improvement costs must be paid for etc. ,however there is a point where it is taking the mickey and we are being robbed blind,and again i am sorry but those people that are  excusing these high prices are only helping to perpetuate this price gouging. Here is my beer pricing list  and is only my own personal opinions;

1)Beer so bad that i would not feed it to a pig,beers in this class vary from high to low price range and this is probably one of the broadest of all the beer classes,pass by asap.

2) Budget own brand beer,think beer like say Aldi/Lidl own brand(O'Sheas golden ale smashing beer),often brewed by a bigger brewery for the chain store and so can be quite passable or even in some cases surprisingly good.Beers in this category should be no more than 1.50 euro per 500ml but occasional acceptions for the likes of O'Sheas@1.89euro can be made when warranted.

3)Budget beer in general,this is any budget  beer not brewed specifically  as an in house chain store brand,this would include Budweiser,Coors etc., beers in this category should be no more than 1.50-1.80 per 500ml.

4a)This beer category is the hardest to define for me since it varys all the way from Wells Banana Bread beer(uck) to Theakston Old Peculier(numero uno imo),to Fran Well to the scary scarecrow Irish brewery name escapes (atm).This is the category i dare say most if not all of us do 99% of our beer shopping in,it goes from craft beer to crafty beer to the better macros like say Sam Adams bostin lager or Dog Fish Head beers.Beers in this category i would drink 99.99% of them,they should be no more than 2.00-2.50 euro per 500ml.

4b)This is part of the group just above it here but the second part would be true "craft" beers say like White Gypsy(man i had a RIS from them  before was like 9.00 a bottle but soo worth it).The likes of Wells would go in section above and the likes of MM would go here,this is the sub category i would put all Irish "craft" breweries that i have tried so far into.There are certain Irish breweries calling themselves "craft" that i do not consider to be and i reckon should go in 4a) above at best(a whole other discussion lol),beers in this category should be no more than 2.50-2.80 per 500ml(gets a bit hairy trying to price beers at this stage).

5) Special Beers,beers in this category would be the likes of the Rochefort lineup or the Westleveren lineup(can never spell that one either),i think we all know the beers that fit into this group,beers in this category are open ended price wise as they are unique and mostly a one off buy for me.There are currently no micro/macro breweries Irish or foreign that i have tried or know of that i would consider fall into this speciality category,beers in this category should be no more than your left testicle per 500ml but you could go as high as an arm for a truly exceptional brew.

[Greg2013]

Oh btw guys i love ye all but please stop quoting Dublin prices and the convenience of these online retailers to Dublin folk as they are irrelevant in comparison to the rest of the country,it is well known Dublin pricing/convenience on anything is in another dimension so totally unfair comparison IMHO,not that i have anything against the Dubs after all i was born there

Guys i don't go around with the above list in my head all the time,it was simply to point out how i view purchasing beer in my local off licence or supermarket or wherever.I thought i was giving the impression that i was saying that MM were robbing b###ards,i wasn't saying that at all.What i was trying to put across is the vendors selling the likes of MM for more than 3.00 per 330ml can are robbing b###ards IMHO.

[mr hoppy]

5) Special Beers,beers in this category would be the likes of the Rochefort lineup or the Westleveren lineup(can never spell that one either),i think we all know the beers that fit into this group,beers in this category are open ended price wise as they are unique and mostly a one off buy for me.There are currently no micro/macro breweries Irish or foreign that i have tried or know of that i would consider fall into this speciality category,beers in this category should be no more than your left testicle per 500ml but you could go as high as an arm for a truly exceptional brew.

The pricing for Rochefort is a major hobby horse of mine. Talk about "quality ingredients" - it's made with a hearty helping of maize flour, and basically table sugar. So's Westvleteren - the feckin monastery is surrounded by maize fields for miles.

[Greg2013]

5) Special Beers,beers in this category would be the likes of the Rochefort lineup or the Westleveren lineup(can never spell that one either),i think we all know the beers that fit into this group,beers in this category are open ended price wise as they are unique and mostly a one off buy for me.There are currently no micro/macro breweries Irish or foreign that i have tried or know of that i would consider fall into this speciality category,beers in this category should be no more than your left testicle per 500ml but you could go as high as an arm for a truly exceptional brew.

The pricing for Rochefort is a major hobby horse of mine. Talk about "quality ingredients" - it's made with a hearty helping of maize flour, and basically table sugar. So's Westvleteren - the feckin monastery is surrounded by maize fields for miles.

I have no objection to anyone using Maize in a beer so long as i am made aware of  it and the extent of its use in said brew,and tbh these beers are so highly priced anyway they are never going to be a daily supping pint.

However i will concede that even for special beers Westie and Rochefort are greatly overpriced IMHO as well so i agree with you on that point.