Long boil - is it necessary

[shweeney]

Put on a beer the other night using spraymalt, the first hop addition was at 50 mins so I did a 50 min total boil.

Seeing as this first hop is just for bittering, could I use hop extract instead and just start from from the first flavour hop addition (so a 20 minute boil in this case)?

Or does the long boil actually affect the malt extract as well.  One effect is that the beer ends up darker, which in this case was a negative as I'm trying to make a blonde (I've read about adding some of the extract later in the boil to counteract this, but why not shorten the boil altogether?)

[armedcor]

I don't think it's necessary I'd probably just boil it long enough to sterilise it with the hop extract if bitterness is all that's required.

I could be completely wrong though.

[nigel_c]

One of out lads in the NCB is working on this. He does the same as you. Bitters with extract and then boils for only the length of the last hop addition. Partial boil and top up (which also is chill) with water and done.
I had the beer. Was the first attempt and was pretty good. A bit thin but nothing that cant be fixed.

[shweeney]

cool - I've just bought a lot of hops but might consider that as a future experiment - if you're knocking 40 minutes off the brew time without compromising the beer, great...

I found some discussion of this on HomeBrewTalk, nobody seems to have a convincing explanation for the long boil beyond "that's what we've always done" or " thats what the commercial boys do" both of which have (apparently) been shown to be weak arguments in other areas.

[nigel_c]

You wont get the caramelization of the wort. For some recipes you need this. Should be good for nice simple pale ales.

[molc]

Also a longer boil helps to remove dms, though I'm not sure if this is an issue for extract.

[shweeney]

Also a longer boil helps to remove dms, though I'm not sure if this is an issue for extract.

I'm not an expert, but anything I've read suggests it's not an issue for anything other than pilsner malt.

[molc]

Ahh didn't know that. Everydays a school day

[Bubbles]

Put on a beer the other night using spraymalt, the first hop addition was at 50 mins so I did a 50 min total boil.

Seeing as this first hop is just for bittering, could I use hop extract instead and just start from from the first flavour hop addition (so a 20 minute boil in this case)?

Or does the long boil actually affect the malt extract as well.  One effect is that the beer ends up darker, which in this case was a negative as I'm trying to make a blonde (I've read about adding some of the extract later in the boil to counteract this, but why not shorten the boil altogether?)

It will do nothing other than darken your extract (and your beer). A 10 minute boil is all that is needed to sanitise. The only concern is, as you've said, getting enough bitterness to balance the malt. You can use hop extract, but it's not the only way. Depending on the style of beer you're doing, using lots of hops during the 10 min boil will give you enough IBUs. It's hop-bursting, essentially.

The Basic brewing guys did a podcast on this topic, have a look.

Also a longer boil helps to remove dms, though I'm not sure if this is an issue for extract.

It's not. Brewing grade malt extract has already been through a full-wort boil, eliminating the need for anything other than a 10 minute boil to sanitise.

The long boil is done to volatilize DMS precursors, not DMS itself. It's needed for all malts, not just pilsner malt. Though pilsner malt is more susceptible to it because it's more lightly kilned than "regular" pale malt. Hence why you often see recipes involving pilsner malt specify a 90 min boil instead of 60 min.

[molc]

Well, that clearly explains that one. I was reading Brewing Classic Styles and had seen they used 90 minute boils for some recipes, citing DMS. Now I understand why.

Thanks!

[Beej]

I racked  a 'stout' I made recently from spare bits and bobs off the trub and into another bucket last night as I'd boiled hops separately (no boil for the LME and DME I used) and not in bags and had a bit of debris from the sieve. It's been in Primary two weeks. Was surprised at the odour though. Not sure if it's hops, DMS or the belgian chocolate overdone (I used a blender as my crushing bags tore.) Smells like strong olive oil, quite herby, tasted really coffee-ish,  not very dark in colour. I've read contrasting things about DMS and boiling/not boiling/temps. This was an experimental no boil batch. (1.5kg 'normal' LME 1kg DME dark, 350g sugar, carapils 300g belgian chocolate 300g both steeped @60 for an hour, cascade 30g 60 mins EK  Goldings 20 and flameout. Bulldog workhorse yeast I think it was called) So, is it DMS (no 'boiled cabbage smell) or have a overdone the hops with the leaf left in for a fortnight or have I ruined it from the chocolate 'milling'? (wasn't overly done, just pulsed it a bit and stored here and there for even finish, looked alright but not used dark steeping malt before.) I was thinking about 'diluting' it a bit when I batch prime? Advice please! Don't want my first drain-pour. Thanks

[Greg2013]

So the question is where do you get hop extract for bittering and what one is best ?

[TheSumOfAllBeers]

You can make hop extract for bittering on your stove top. Just boil your hops in some wort or DME. Quite easy to store too and if you do your calculations right, you might have a convenient source of IBUs that are easy to add into kits or beers that came out too low on IBUs otherwise

[Greg2013]

You can make hop extract for bittering on your stove top. Just boil your hops in some wort or DME. Quite easy to store too and if you do your calculations right, you might have a convenient source of IBUs that are easy to add into kits or beers that came out too low on IBUs otherwise

Maybe down the line but tbh i would rather just buy it to try first.

[TheSumOfAllBeers]

The product you are looking for is called Isomerised Hop Extract. It works very well, adding a uniform bitterness to a beer when properly dosed.

It is not to be confused with finishing hop extracts, which are used to add aroma and flavour. Those products are a little bit more variable in their success rates. There are US products that work very well, but they are really hard to get.