National Competition - Some Issues

[mr hoppy]

If the competition is supposed to be about education surely part of that is educating those of us who might be a bit *ahem* cellar blind from time to time?

In terms of logistics. If you look at the stats from last year and the year before it's striking that 20% of the entrants entered 43% of the beers in 2013 and that was up to over 49% in 2014.

A cap on the number of entries per brewer would force entrants themselves to be selective about what they enter.

[Damien M]

If the competition is supposed to be about education surely part of that is educating those of us who might be a bit *ahem* cellar blind from time to time?

In terms of logistics. If you look at the stats from last year and the year before it's striking that 20% of the entrants entered 43% of the beers in 2013 and that was up to over 49% in 2014.

A cap on the number of entries per brewer would force entrants themselves to be selective about what they enter.

Definitely agree with that!!!

[irish_goat]

A cap on the number of entries per brewer would force entrants themselves to be selective about what they enter.

What about brewers who score consistently high scores across the board?

[Hingo]

A cap on the number of entries per brewer would force entrants themselves to be selective about what they enter.

What about brewers who score consistently high scores across the board?

Simple, they should be looking to enter their best styles that they'd be confident in winning overall BOS with their limited entries

At least that would be my goal if I was a consistent category winner. 

[Bazza]

An individual entering loads of beers is no guarantee of a win.

Take my mate, for instance. He loves puns and creating pun-related sentences. One day his local paper ran a competition looking for the best pun. He had made so many good puns he decided to enter ten of his best puns under ten different assumed names. He was 100% confident that at least one of his ten puns would win, but in the end no pun in ten did.

_{Where's the 'Cancel forum Subscription' button again?}

-Barry

[Hingo]

Best thing I've read all day!

[Rossa]

A cap on the number of entries per brewer would force entrants themselves to be selective about what they enter.

What about brewers who score consistently high scores across the board?

I agree with both of you. There are also 24+ categories with 3-6 subcategories within those so limiting to 1 per sub cat could still leave someone with 50 entries. A good brewer could nail 15 -20 of those styles no problem and perhaps they want an objective view of these... All of which might be medal winning.   

[Damien M]

A cap on the number of entries per brewer would force entrants themselves to be selective about what they enter.

What about brewers who score consistently high scores across the board?

I agree with both of you. There are also 24+ categories with 3-6 subcategories within those so limiting to 1 per sub cat could still leave someone with 50 entries. A good brewer could nail 15 -20 of those styles no problem and perhaps they want an objective view of these... All of which might be medal winning.

I think there is a difference between an objective view of a beer and looking for a medal at a national event. If you have 20 medal winning beers what do 20 medals prove.?? Thinking about Hingos comment about if you win this year it gives you a direct buy to the National event the following year, perhaps we should preclude the winners from entering next year in the category they won! It would push all brewers to improve, in all styles and reduce the Blanket Bombing approach to competition.

[mr hoppy]

I think by the time you are able to nail medals on a fair percentage of 20 beers your sensory analysis skills are probably going to be good enough that your past the stage of needing feedback to a large degree except maybe when trying out something new.

Not saying anything against the folks that are in it for the medals - that's part of the fun and those I've met have been really nice folks as well - but I don't think it's fair to knock those of us who are mostly in it for the feedback either.

[mr hoppy]

Sorry - I just so Rossa's comment there. I was thinking of an overall cap per brewer, not a cap per category - e.g. each brewer can only enter X beers in the competition.

And again as someone said previously I'm only making a suggestion and I respect that many folks here have made a huge contribution and have greater ownership / commitment than the likes of myself.

[Boycott]

I say let people enter as much as they want. The competition has a limit i believe and its never gotten to capacity yet

[Roo]

An individual entering loads of beers is no guarantee of a win.

Take my mate, for instance. He loves puns and creating pun-related sentences. One day his local paper ran a competition looking for the best pun. He had made so many good puns he decided to enter ten of his best puns under ten different assumed names. He was 100% confident that at least one of his ten puns would win, but in the end no pun in ten did.

_{Where's the 'Cancel forum Subscription' button again?}

-Barry

The man is pure genius!

[Damien M]

I think by the time you are able to nail medals on a fair percentage of 20 beers your sensory analysis skills are probably going to be good enough that your past the stage of needing feedback to a large degree except maybe when trying out something new.

Not saying anything against the folks that are in it for the medals - that's part of the fun and those I've met have been really nice folks as well - but I don't think it's fair to knock those of us who are mostly in it for the feedback either.

I'm all for the feedback but I don't think we should be using the Nationals as a feedback mechanism. Do countys send it's team to Croake Park for feedback? I realise the NHC is a new organisation and still finding its feet but we should be looking to the future rather than the now.

We  should have a facility where a brewer can send a beer or 20 to someone to get feedback either via their local club or a network of BJCP judges.  We are starting to get quite a panel of judges both qualified and in training that, for a  fixed price donation to the club, ( non profit of course)  could get formal and constructive feedback on their beer. The Club meets are great for general opinions on a beer but are very general. Perhaps Clubs could designate a quarterly meet that would use the BJCP scoresheet to give feedback.       

[nigel_c]

I think a lot of the feedback should come at club level. If you have a beer you are particularity happy with it should be brought to a club meet up and blind tasted. 10-20 mins could easily be put aside at local meet up to do a proper score sheet. More formal then the pass the bottle to the left we all know and love.
If a beer I brewed was scored a 20 at a local meetup it would put me off entering it to any competition.

[molc]

Currently, there's club meets and the national, with some smaller contests throughout the year (are these BJCP events btw?) If I want good feedback done by a qualified judge, then my options are quite limited. If you are outside of Dublin, then those options get even smaller.

If we want to do more regional/club judging to BJCP standard, then we're going to have to get a lot more people, at club level, out there and organising these things. I suspect this is what could stop the idea dead in it's tracks.