Anyone used lactobacillus

[mr hoppy]

I've ordered some WLP 677 from the HBC and I'm planning on trying it out on a gose and a wit and I was wondering if anyone any experience using lacto cultures to brew sour beers? I'd be really interested to hear about it as from what I can gather there seem to be varying opinions on how to do a starter (I've seen apple juice or even tomato juice suggested), whether the starter needs to be cultured at body temperature or not, when and how to pitch and whether or not its possible to store lacto.

[mr hoppy]

Talking to myself, but some interesting info on here.

[johnrm]

I'm not using it but I heard a chap ranting about it all day Sunday.
He was like a priest shouting 'Jesus, Jesus'   

[Hop Bomb]

On one of the brewing network podcasts I heard someone say they have a separate fermentor for it & they took a screw driver to the inside to make loads of scratches & gouges for the bacteria to live in. They just use that fermentor for sour beers. (i think the idea is the bacteria live on even after cleaning it post brew)

[matthewdick23]

yup, the idea is that anything that touches the wort/beer once the yeast is thrown in shouldnt really be used again for a non sour beer.

they need a good long time to mature- 12-18 months

ive been looking to get into them myself. the roselaire strain is sposed to b excellent- a blend of different funky yeasts

matthew

[mr hoppy]

Yeah, I got new buckets with the lacto  .

I think the maturity thing depends a lot on when you put the lacto in. If you put into the secondary it will take a long time (think oud bruin/flemish red), but if you put it in first, or put in more of it than yeast, it'll be sour from the start, but will benefit from maturing.

I'm thinking of pitching a 2-2.5 litre lacto starter (maybe using the wort from a wit) and half a pack of S33. Here's hoping anyway.

[Padraic]

Yeah, I got new buckets with the lacto  .

I think the maturity thing depends a lot on when you put the lacto in. If you put into the secondary it will take a long time (think oud bruin/flemish red), but if you put it in first, or put in more of it than yeast, it'll be sour from the start, but will benefit from maturing.

I'm thinking of pitching a 2-2.5 litre lacto starter (maybe using the wort from a wit) and half a pack of S33. Here's hoping anyway.

Use your old buckets for the lacto and new ones for yeasts! (May as well use one that could already be infected! Instead of infecting a fresh one!)

I'd be interested in giving this a go sometime but not until I have some more space!

[mr hoppy]

Sorry, forgot to say old buckets lacto, new buckets yeasties... and carboy brett.

[johnrm]

What's next on your brewing schedule Mr_happy and when?
I wouldn't mind jumping in.

[mr hoppy]

I saw that as well! Just for the record I got them from the HBS

[matthewdick23]

hey mr happy

did you do the beer?

im going to do a quad next wk i think

my thinking right now is to use yeast from http://www.ommegang.com/#!beer_three  and then splitting the batch and souring half of it

going to use dregs from these i brought home from cali


http://russianriverbrewing.com/brews/sanctification/
http://russianriverbrewing.com/brews/consecration/
http://russianriverbrewing.com/brews/supplication/


cant wait!!

[mr hoppy]

Not yet. Never, had any of the Russian River brews either, so a bit jealous of your source for bugs!

[matthewdick23]

happy to share if you want. i'll prob primary it for a couple wks/1 month then transfer. at which point ill have loads to share. going to cali again in the summer to get more!

where ulive?

[Dodge]

I've done several sour beers but most of them I used the sour mix ( I think it's WLP655) which has the 3 different bacteria strains.

The Flanders red I did I used it straight from the start. No other yeast and fermented in a carboy and left for a year to develop. Tasted real good and had a slight sour taste. If you ferment in a carboy where o2 pickup is very little then the sour taste will be very minimal. I heard that instead of using a carboy cap you use like a wooden peg to fill the hole in the carboy that the oxygen that works its way to the beer will develop a more sour note.

If you ferment in a bucket, o2 pickup would be more so souring will happen quicker.

My Flanders brown I fermented with dry yeast first then pitched sour mix. It has very complex notes but sourness is very slight.

Bacteria strains should be pitched as is from the vial. No starter needed. This is very true with vials that have a couple of bacteria strains since the the likes of whitelabs have produced the vial with the correct amounts of bacteria with relation to each other

[matthewdick23]

you need to be v careful with oxygen levels with the sours- even if theyve formed a pelicle.  you dont really want to use the regualr plastic fermentors as long terms (6-24 mths) they let too much oxygen in.  One approch is to use the plastic fv for a month or so then transfer to a glass carboy or ss keg.

would love to do a flanders red someday