National Competition - Some Issues

[Partridge9]

Anyone know why the cider/mead winners, and BOS winners aren't appearing on the registration site??

Yeap - I need to get that to ya !

The Cider / Mead / Wine are in the paper work at home .. sorry - Ill update it later.

The BOS
1: - Richard Lubell and his Weizenbock
2: - JOC and his Helles
3:- Jakub and his smoked porter

Well done lads - specatular beers !

[molc]

Usual caveats apply; the below is constructive criticism, not intended as digs

Just some thoughts from my day there:
1. As a suggestion for next year, I think there should be a prepared checklist for the introduction for stewards and judges. It works itself out as the day goes on, but the initial briefing is chaotic and unclear. A simple show and tell with walk through of a judging round, as well as preparing packs for each table, would make it all very smooth and clear-cut.

2. Regarding bottles, it's already a logistical nightmare, so I think it's more a case of having to work within the constraints. Recapping would help, as well as keeping bottles in the cold-room before and after the category is judged. Maybe a mini ice bath on the judging tables or a big though to pop each crate into while it's in the judging room?
Clear guidelines to judges and stewards would also help - it was not communicated to try and keep some back for the bos etc and there are a low of newbies present.

3. Stewards probably need a few more assigned roles in the later stages. Maybe when the judging of the main categories is over, get them all back together and send them off to do the last few dirty chores; as it ended up, there was only a few of us downstairs at the end helping Tom with the bottles. In fact, I think it was more judges than stewards for the final haul

4. Poor Kellie really needs more help up at the head table. She was doing a sterling job, but there's only so much one person can do. I'm sure she can pitch in with some ideas on this, but basically, give her enough slaves to do her job. If really necessary, buy her a whip for the day >

[Jacob]

The BOS
1: - Richard Lubell and his Weizenbock
2: - JOC and his Helles
3:- Jakub and his smoke porter

Smoked? Sure that I've entered Baltic

[Saruman (Reuben Gray)]

A 100ml or so sample should be adequate for judging - I believe some tables were returning empty bottles from the first round - this is not a piss-up. Emptying a good beer on the first round is not acceptable.

I disagree wholeheartedly with this. 100ml is far more than adequate for a bad or mediocre beer and acceptable for anything up to about 40 points. It's much easier to judge off flavours than try to find a reason not to give an exceptional beer 50 points.

When a beer gets in the 40s, it means that it is outstanding and quite often, in order to get an accurate score, more is needed to double check certain aspects. This is rare by the way, quite often, 100ml is more than enough and in some cases, far too much.
The other problem with the exceptionally good (or bad) beer is not only do judges pass it to other judges for some clarification, stewards want a taste too. Again, this doesn't happen with average beer, just the exceptional on either side of the scale.

[Kellie]

I have lots of feedback and suggestions to help things run smoothly next year. And will happily meet up to discuss. With every event there is always learning moving forward. It was a great 2 days to be involved in and would I do it again?  Hell yes,  just armed in a different way.  Molc is right a lot more help is needed at head table,  l didn't have enough time to keep an eye on everything that I needed too! I laugh at the whip suggestion because i threatened that in Galway!

[Kellie]

Galway was an easier day to co ordinate as there was 150 beers judge, Dublin had 300 beers judged! Great learning curve for me

[SlugTrap]

So:
A 3rd bottle from everyone would create logistical problems for collection.
Recapping and rechilling is more work for the stewards on the day.

What about about if you win your category, you're responsible for getting a 3rd bottle to a drop point for the BOS, which would be run on a third day?
I realize that a separate round of collection is another set of expenses/effort/headaches, but it's 25 bottles at most, right? And there'd exemptions for bottles from abroad, etc.

Just spitballing here; I think it's an issue that deserves some real thought.

[irish_goat]

Recapping on the day isn't a problem. It takes a few seconds to do and stewards (plus myself) would have the time for that. The issue with re-chilling is that the bottles come back in dribs and drabs so if the cellar is far away it's a lot of work to get them back. I don't think I like the idea of the 3rd day as it means then the medals for overall best beer wouldn't get handed out on the main night.

[Garry]

I thought last year that we discussed reimbursement of fuel costs to enable more contributors (ie ppl with cars) to the logistics side of things. Would cover that suggestion.

I doubt you'd see any increase in volunteers. What do you mean "ppl with cars"? I have 2 cars and it would take more than a few bob to get me to drive around the country collecting bottles of beer. The people who did ALL the donkey work for the competition didn't do it for compensation. They do it because they enjoy helping make such a great event happen. Take a bow guys, because you did good. Again. We appreciate it.

I really think 2 bottles is plenty. A capper on the day is essential. The club should buy one and put it in the box where all the other competition stuff is kept.

It's only the high scoring beers from large fights that would need to be refrigerated. It might be possible to have a small fridge in a venue where the cold room is too far away?

Judges should be briefed to go handy on the high scorers. Stewards should be briefed to keep an eye on the high scorers too, and avoid the temptation to drain the bottle any further. There'll be buckets of beer that can be sampled at the end of the evening.

[Shanna]

Would a requirement to use swing tops only help with the issue of capping the bottles. I stewarded on Saturday & I found it difficult to direct judges at times, skirting a fine line between being assertive & coming across like I was dictating to the judges. Time keeping & going handy on the beer were a constant issue with some judges. I would agree that giving judges guidelines or a briefing would help.

I wanted to thank everyone who contributed their time in whatever capacity as I had a great day.

Shanna

[irish_goat]

Would a requirement to use swing tops only help with the issue of capping the bottles.

I think this would discourage people. Not everyone has a supply of them and it adds to the cost if you've to buy some specifically. Honestly, I have more than enough time on the day to recap bottles, I did it last year but forgot to bring the capper this time. I have 2 twin levers plus a bench capper so I will donate one of the twin levers next year. 

[molc]

I'm actually going to use pet bottles next year as its much easier to get from the keg. Cheap as chips and reseable...

[Shanna]

Hi there,

One suggestion for the competition IT people & for the labels is whether it would be possible to link pictures taken of poured entries to a contestants results. One of my judges remarked that a picture of a poured beer would paint a thousand words. If we could do this I think it would help people understand handwritten feedback also.

Shanna

[Partridge9]

I'm actually going to use pet bottles next year as its much easier to get from the keg. Cheap as chips and reseable...

This is actually not allowed. 500ml brown glass bottles, with no identifying labels, this is MEGA important !!
-  Youd be surprised at some of the bottles we get !

But we should have had a bench-capper there on the night. I forgot it - in fairness Kellie flagged it from Galway and I had it on a list
so hands up on that one.


Lads,

We dont need to re-invent the wheel here.

AHA, UK, Sweden, We all do it the same. I woke up at 4am this morning with endless thoughts about this 3rd bottle !

Its important that we stick to the standard rules. We are right on the limit of what we can manage here, if we are honest - we are probably over the limit and some people are pushed way more that they should be, I'm real afraid some of them wont do it next year.

The reality is that only 12 people responded to the labelling 'shout-out' for 900 bottles.

I posted all most of the entries this morning, and I know John drove to meath yesterday (3 hour round trip) with all the crates.

I know no-one is having a go at the organizers here and they are only trying to help / put forward suggestions

but the title 'some issues' suggests some things are wrong which isnt a great message to be sending straight after the event.


I think a meetup is a little better as the tone of ideas presented is so much better.



Peace and love to all !

[molc]

I'm actually going to use pet bottles next year as its much easier to get from the keg. Cheap as chips and resealble...

This is actually not allowed. 500ml brown glass bottles, with no identifying labels, this is MEGA important !!
-  Youd be surprised at some of the bottles we get !

Bugger. About to do a golden ale at 4 Vol/Co2 and terrified of putting that in glass.

Anyway, back on topic, if you want a meet about it, just put forward a time and a venue in town and have at it with the peps. Always good to have a wrap up meeting after any big event and like you say, personal tone counts for a lot when giving critique.